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April 27, 2005

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observer

That is just one of five pieces the JTA has on the current Lubavitcher putsch in Europe.

To see the whole series, go to http://www.jta.org/page_chabad.asp

observer

It is off the mark to portray it as a modern-orthodox Lubavitch conflict, however, especially if you mean YU Rabbis. If you read up on it, I think you will see that few of the Rabbis involved are YU/RIETS grads. Rather the orthodox ones are Haredi or European modern types, and the JTA report covers non-orthodox as well.

Schneur

Clearly Chabad hs never really hidden its agenda, which is to spread its teaching s and particular doctrines world over. In former years this was through shluchim and Chabad houses.
In recent years with the fall of the Iron Curtain they have decided to take over Jewish communities wholesale.
Since few other Jewish spiritual centers (ie yeshivas or hasidic centers are interested in providing rabbinical leadership) they are rapidly exerting a significant influence in places like the UK and Australia.
Ironically the only steadfast bastion (of faith) against chabad are the Charedim. Their communities and shuls will rarely if ever allow a chabad person in their midst as a teacher or rabbi. This is true in melbourne where the Kolel and Adath israel (Hungarian orthodox) are just about the only shuls not taken over by Chabad rabbis. (The Mizrachi Synagogue just hired a fine American rav who one hopes will be able to create a viable Modern alternative to chabad.
Friends have told me that thereare non Chabad Orthodox rabbis from israel in Russia serving as teaches and rabbis. But apparently they lack the political savy to obtain government support for their organizations and work.
As I have said before let chabad do its work, but if in the process it seeks to take control of a community and shuts out other rabbis , I believe World jewry ought to react.
Finally lets not forget the economic factor here as these poitical power moves give Chabad rabbis jobs and positions.
Since most Chabad young people prefer to enter the rabbinate rather than work or study these countries offer important opportunities for the Chabad young people to continue their life style.

rebeljew

Nation after nation after nation after nation we are con-quer-ing ... Shluchei A-donai-nu!!!

boot

Nation after nation after nation after nation we are con-quer-ing ... Shluchei A-donai-nu!!! TO BRING MOSHIACH TZIDKAYNU AND TOMORROW WILL BE GOLUS NO MORE AND WE'LL WIN THIS GOLUS WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Isa

Mostly I see incompetance in the Jewish world. So a outfit that is half way competant to start to take over, what do you expect? Actually Chabad's outreach for the common Jew is by far superior to anything else out there.
Lets see are their bunches of candles in front of the Rebbe's picture? If so, maybe I will light one or two.

Larry

ISA
Good if they delivered Judaism .
To many , it doesn't come across as such !

Larry

ISA part II
http:// www.mesora.org /deification. html
check out this one

Isa

Larry:
Thank you for the link www.mesora.org
If Chabad wants to say the Rebbe was some sort of navi (prophet) OK but anything more than that is pure (expletive deleated)
I know how to take the good and leave the (expletive deleated)

rebeljew

The Talmud, Rishonim and Acharonim do use actions of various people as proofs, as we do today. IOW, it can be that we prove that X is valid because the Rashba did it or that he answered a shaila in a certain way. So what he says on mesora is not quite right. However, infallibility doctrine is also not tenable, see this link for more, http://rebeljew.blogspot.com/2005/03/dangers-of-infallibility-doctrine.html

The key is that the practice is accepted across the Jewish board as it were. It is not enough, for instance, that the Chabad BD declares that the Rebbe is the Moshaich. Other BDs across Judaism must accept the fact for it to become halacha. In the time of the Mishna, they called all of the Rabbanim together and got buy in from each and every one. Thus, the actions or words of a particular gadol are to prove the acceptability of a particular practice in all circles.

An example would be kaparos. The Sephardic rationalists never accepted this practice, but they did not assur it either. Hence, it is an acceptable (not avoda zara) custom, but not halacha. The fact that gadolim today support the practice does not prove that it is more than it is. Whereas, following Shabtai Tzvi was universally condemned by all BDs outside of his own.

In short, no halacha was based on any one Rav. However, the words or actions of a gadol COULD give evidence that a practice had been previously sustained ex-cathedra. However, it is not the gadol giving it that weight. He is just being used as evidence of an existing fact.

Schneur

If Chabad thinks that it's brand of Judaism is a good product , why the need for the elaborate subtrafuges it uses in the free world to spread its message and conquer the Jewish world.
Firstly it puts out booklets etc with the rebbe's sermons etc leaving out the rebbe's name etc to spread in the Yeshivas in the US.
Heichal Menachem center and others spread chabad teachings in the Chasidic communities world over all the while down playing their chabad affiliation.
There are also some well known Hungarian rabbis in Brooklyn and Monsey who try to spread their Chabad teachings while claiming not to be Luavitcher followers. (One day I hope to list their names on thsi site)
And finally there are the organizations that JTA and others report on .
Are they still in the Soviet nion where such tactics played a role ?

I posit that a great deal of animosity against Lubavitch would dissolve if chabad dropped its front organizations and its subtrevuges.No other Orthodox group works in this manner.
The orthodox world is mature enough to tolerate an open market of ideas.

this is all a bluff

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