Rabbis Riot In Crown Heights – And You Thought Throat-Ripping Was The Worst Of It

According to today's New York Daily News:

Nine members of the ultra-orthodox Lubavitcher Hasidic sect were arrested on a Crown Heights  street yesterday after a violent dispute erupted over a plaque honoring the sect's holiest figure.

Seven men and two women were arrested as cops flooded the area outside the sect's synagogue and headquarters at 770 Eastern Parkway at 11:30 a.m. in response to a report of a disturbance involving nearly 300 Lubavitchers. The charges included resisting arrest and disorderly conduct.

The violence erupted over the words "of blessed memory," which were inscribed on a plaque under the name of Lubavitcher Grand Rebbe Menachem Schneerson that had been affixed to a cornerstone at the synagogue's entrance.

The inscription goes to the heart of a long-standing dispute that has split the insular community. One faction believes Schneerson is dead. The other believes the grand rebbe is alive - and coming back as the Moshiach, or Messiah.

"He's alive - they are writing that the rebbe is dead!" said Gil Schwartz, 42, a Lubavitcher from Montreal.…

The New York Post adds:

Nine people were arrested yesterday in a melee at the headquarters of Brooklyn's most visible ultra-Orthodox Jewish movement, which is divided over whether the Lubavitcher founder, Rabbi Menachem Schneerson, is alive or dead.

Workers at Lubavitch World Headquarters at 770 Eastern Parkway in Crown Heights were installing a new plaque on the building which refers to Schneerson's "blessed memory."

But followers of Lubavitch's "messianic" wing object to those words, because they believe Schneerson — who died in 1994 at age 92 — lives in spirit and flesh.

Some who are convinced that Schneerson lives fought the workers installing the plaque and other Lubavitchers who oppose their views, police and witnesses said.

Cops arrested seven men and two women in the 10 a.m. melee. The men face various charges, including assault on a police officer and resisting arrest. The two women were charged with disorderly conduct.…

Lubavitcher messianists say that instead of referring to Schneerson's "blessed memory," any new plaque must say: "Long live our master, our teacher, our Rebbe king messiah, forever and ever."

Just remember folks. They slaughter your meat.

Update:

I received the following anonymous comment from a reader via e-mail:

1. Notice [Chabad-Lubavitch spokesperson] Zalman Shmotkin never said outright that their leader was NOT the messiah. What he took issue with was their actions.
2. He believes dead Jews can be the Messiah.
3. And this is the core of the issue: Tactics, not beliefs.
4. You will not find Zalman Shmotkin EVER saying that a dead Jew can't be the Messiah.
5. I'm sure he reads this blog. Challenge him to say otherwise.

You can read the Daily News article here, the Post article here,  or both after the jump.

http://www.nydailynews.com/boroughs/story/262382p-224663c.html

Cuff 9 in rabbi row
Lubavitchers clash over plaque
BY MELISSA GRACE
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

Lubavitcher members rail against wording on cornerstone for Grand Rebbe Menachem Schneerson yesterday.

Nine members of the ultra-orthodox Lubavitcher Hasidic sect were arrested on a Crown Heights street yesterday after a violent dispute erupted over a plaque honoring the sect's holiest figure.

Seven men and two women were arrested as cops flooded the area outside the sect's synagogue and headquarters at 770 Eastern Parkway at 11:30 a.m. in response to a report of a disturbance involving nearly 300 Lubavitchers. The charges included resisting arrest and disorderly conduct.

The violence erupted over the words "of blessed memory," which were inscribed on a plaque under the name of Lubavitcher Grand Rebbe Menachem Schneerson that had been affixed to a cornerstone at the synagogue's entrance.

The inscription goes to the heart of a long-standing dispute that has split the insular community. One faction believes Schneerson is dead. The other believes the grand rebbe is alive - and coming back as the Moshiach, or Messiah.

"He's alive - they are writing that the rebbe is dead!" said Gil Schwartz, 42, a Lubavitcher from Montreal.

The controversy dates to 1994, when Schneerson died. Shortly after Schneerson's death, the plaque was mounted on the cornerstone. The words "of blessed memory" were scratched out by those who believe that Schneerson lives on, and will one day return as the Messiah.

The new trouble started several weeks ago, when a group of Yeshiva students substituted the plaque for one that read, "Long live our Master, the Messiah," according to Lubavitchers outside the synagogue yesterday.

After several attempts to replace the plaque were thwarted, the organization that runs the headquarters, Merkos L'Inyonei Chinuch, got a temporary restraining order barring any further interference. The synagogue's entrance has been guarded by barricades and cops since.

Meanwhile, Merkos had a new plaque - with the original inscription - put up, prompting the outcry and the violence.

Calling the violence "unacceptable," Rabbi Zalman Shmotkin, a spokesman for the main rabbi, Yehuda Krinsky, said, "We hope that they will soon learn the error of their current ways and become adherents of the rebbe's ways."

Originally published on December 16, 2004

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/36583.htm

REBBE ROUSERS
By JOSEPH MOLLICA, JAMIE SCHRAM and BILL SANDERSON


December 16, 2004 -- Nine people were arrested yesterday in a melee at the headquarters of Brooklyn's most visible ultra-Orthodox Jewish movement, which is divided over whether the Lubavitcher founder, Rabbi Menachem Schneerson, is alive or dead.

Workers at Lubavitch World Headquarters at 770 Eastern Parkway in Crown Heights were installing a new plaque on the building which refers to Schneerson's "blessed memory."

But followers of Lubavitch's "messianic" wing object to those words, because they believe Schneerson — who died in 1994 at age 92 — lives in spirit and flesh.

Some who are convinced that Schneerson lives fought the workers installing the plaque and other Lubavitchers who oppose their views, police and witnesses said.

Cops arrested seven men and two women in the 10 a.m. melee. The men face various charges, including assault on a police officer and resisting arrest. The two women were charged with disorderly conduct.

Among the radical Lubavitchers arrested was Chesad Halberstam, whose son Ari was killed by an Arab terrorist who shot up a van carrying Hassidic students on the Brooklyn Bridge in 1994.

The feud over the granite plaque had been brewing for several months. The mainstream Lubavitcher organization claims messianists stole the old plaque, and had a court order barring messianists from interfering with the new plaque's installation.

Lubavitcher messianists say that instead of referring to Schneerson's "blessed memory," any new plaque must say: "Long live our master, our teacher, our Rebbe king messiah, forever and ever."

One messianist said the mainstream Lubavitch organization shouldn't have installed the new plaque, because it will be stolen again.

"They have to learn that stone is not going to stay there," said Gil Schwartz, 42. "The Hasidim stand behind the rebbe and the rebbe's words. The rebbe declared himself to be the messiah."

But a mainstream Lubavitcher who gave his name only as Mendel said he saw Schneerson's body after he died.

"The reality is ugly. He is buried in Queens," said Mendel, 31. "I saw him in his office with a sheet over him and candles near his head."

Both sides believe Schneerson was, or is, prophetic. Schwartz said he foresaw such diverse events as the fall of the Soviet Union and the exodus of Russian Jews to Israel, and this year's Florida hurricanes.

The messianists are "misguided" and have "desecrated" Schneerson's name, said Rabbi Zalman Shmotkin, a mainstream Lubavitch leader.

"We hope they will soon learn the error of their current ways and become adherents of the rebbe's ways, the ways of pleasantness and peace," Shmotkin said.

Comments

[shmarya is a nutcase]

Only an idiot can connect this with the the shechita story. Shmarya, you are a nutcase!!

[Yekhoniahu]

..... But followers of Lubavitch's "messianic" wing object to those words, because they believe Schneerson — who died in 1994 at age 92 — lives in spirit and flesh......
What Messianic wing ? Some of them believe that he never died & the others that he is o to to about to rise from the dead to be Messiah. Who is Messianist and who is not ?

" Some who are convinced that Schneerson lives fought the workers installing the plaque and other Lubavitchers who oppose their views, police and witnesses said."

There is no difference , both sides are harmful nut cases with no discernable difference in style !

" Among the radical Lubavitchers arrested was Chesad Halberstam, whose son Ari was killed by an Arab terrorist who shot up a van carrying Hassidic students on the Brooklyn Bridge in 1994."

That makes him a maven .

" The feud over the granite plaque had been brewing for several months. The mainstream Lubavitcher organization claims messianists stole the old plaque, and had a court order barring messianists from interfering with the new plaque's installation. "

A bigger than life Kiddish Hashem ! Judah Maccabee , move over !

[Yekhoniahu]

"The mainstream Lubavitcher organization claims messianists stole the old plaque, and had a court order barring messianists from interfering with the new plaque's installation."

The main stream & the side stream are 2 peas from the same pod - Dr Jekyll & Mr Hyde .

" One messianist said the mainstream Lubavitch organization shouldn't have installed the new plaque, because it will be stolen again. "

If he initiated & encouraged this mess , what need is there for any plaque save for one to identify him ?

"They have to learn that stone is not going to stay there," said Gil Schwartz, 42. "The Hasidim stand behind the rebbe and the rebbe's words. The rebbe declared himself to be the messiah."

There you go !

" Both sides believe Schneerson was, or is, prophetic. Schwartz said he foresaw such diverse events as the fall of the Soviet Union and the exodus of Russian Jews to Israel, and this year's Florida hurricanes."

What nonsense ! anybody , who prayed for the demise of the SU & for the freedom of our brothers in Russia , certainly hoped that these events will happen . Are we all then prophets ?

" The messianists are "misguided" and have "desecrated" Schneerson's name, said Rabbi Zalman Shmotkin, a mainstream Lubavitch leader. "

Dessecrated "his" name ? How about him & them desecrating shem shomayim ?

"We hope they will soon learn the error of their current ways and become adherents of the rebbe's ways, the ways of pleasantness and peace," Shmotkin said.

Oh ! Yes!

"Only an idiot can connect this with the the shechita story. Shmarya, you are a nutcase!! "

And you must be clever !

[me]

This kind of behavior just makes the rest of us look bad in the eyes of the world.

[schneur]

Nothing has changed in the way Lubavitch functions internally. The Messichistin and their most radical followers who believe the Rebbe is alive and well act ina manner unbecoming jews chasidim and normal people. Krinsky and his nephew Shmotkin criticize them in a prefunctory manner and life goes on.
Why is it that Krinsky, Shemtov and Aguch do not take actual action against the Meshichistin ?
The answer is that the majority (vast?) of Crown Heights people are meshichistin of some sort. That includes the rabbinate (Schvei and Ozdaba) the rosh yeshiva (Labkowsky) the Ohel Torah Mashpiim (Korff and Pevsner) and many educators in the community. As such Krinsky can not do much except issue press releases to the daily zenus.

[Shmarya]

I received the following from an anonymous reader via e-mail:

"Notice Zalman Shmotkin never said outright that their leader was NOT the messiah. What he took issue with was their actions.

He believes dead Jews can be the Messiah.

And this is the core of the issue: Tactics, not beliefs.

You will not find Zalman Shmotkin EVER saying that a dead Jew can't be the Messiah.

I'm sure he reads this blog. Challenge him to say otherwise."

[Closeted]

"The answer is that the majority (vast?) of Crown Heights people are meshichistin of some sort. That includes the rabbinate (Schvei and Ozdaba) the rosh yeshiva (Labkowsky) the Ohel Torah Mashpiim (Korff and Pevsner) and many educators in the community. As such Krinsky can not do much except issue press releases to the daily zenus."

Schneur: You should really know better than this...
1. There have been no studies that indicate the 'moshiachist' nature of the community. The bulk of them [at least the loud extremists, are Israeli students studying in NY for (at least) one year as part of the 'Kvutza' program. These youths are often at the root of violence.
2. The 'Oholei Torah' yeshiva is divided 50/50 among it's staff. The Roshei Yeshivos that are not Moshichist include Rabbi Y. Friedman, Rabbi E. Piekarsky, Rabbi Gerlitzky, Rabbi Hertz, Rabbi Segal etc...
3. Rabbi Dovid Raskin, is the Menahel of the Yeshiva in 770, and he certainly no Moshichist, neither is Rabbi Yoel Kahan, nor Rabbi Zarchi, two of it's prominent staff.
4. To say that the Rabbinate is Moshichist is also foolhardy, as one of the two remaining Rabbonim, Rabbi Heller -- who also doubles as the Rosh Kollel -- is by no means a Moshichist...

[josh]

Closeted made some good points already.

It was stated on the blog, "Just remember folks. They slaughter your meat."

How could they? They live in Crown Heights! You're a fool if you believe the tzfasniks are the ones slaughtering meat. They are the cause of all the trouble and are certainly not being hired as slaughterers. Thank G-d Krinsky has done what he has with the plaque and having bachurim and those who cause trouble dealt with appropiately.

[Paqah]

the tsafsniks ? sure , so clear in the photo - they all look tzfasniks.
one moment , all those arrested were tzfasniks ?
naturally , those of the holy land of crown heights , are perfect and holy . everybody else is bad , the tzfasniks , all israelis , anybody who is not anash or agach , the gentiles . that is when it suits us . otherwise , if we need anybody , he automatically becomes good . a tool in our hand , good as long as he is needed . that includes :
the tzfasniks , all israelis , anybody who is not anash or agach , the gentiles .... especially the Israelis , those who eat hummus , -our favorite targets in the himalayas for the mitzva tanks boys- .

[go screw urself]

why don't u get a life and shutdownd this site? if not then make a page that comes up before the site goes on and it should have a disclaimer that this site is a memmber of loshon hora.com and u must accept all the aveiros before entering.

[Paqah]

" Posted by: go screw urself | December 17, 2004 03:47 PM "

what a distinguished language !
is is your last name ? - a rather long family name & somewhat unusual for anash/aguch . must be one of those concealed names of "sod" cognescenti !

[paqah means what?]

you really need to get a life you voidness!

[The Chicxulubavitcher Rebbe]

While picking up my daughter this morning for visitation, I mentioned to my ex-wife about the men having been arrested. She added, "Two women, as well, a kiddush Hashem." She said she had attended a shiur on Shobbos where a women taught that somehow the arrest of two women showed such mesiras nefesh that made it a kiddush Hashem. Very curious. She wouldn't tell me who gave the shiur.

My ex is your pretty typical baal-tshuvah, a meshichist, but not overboard like the Tsafsniks, at least outwardly.

I suppose that there really is no difference of opinion across Lubavitch on the issue of the Rebbe's appelations, just on how to present it to the non-Lubavitch world. Just like the mishichist issue itself, all Lubavitchers believe the Rebbe is Moshiach, all Lubavitchers, in some way, in a range from physically to metaphorically, believe the Rebbe hasn't died. It's just that when you express such opinions in print or carved stone for the world to see, people react strongly to such a permanent physical statement, unlike hidden thoughts and ephemeral speech.

[Schneur]

As for Closeted remarks to me. I appreciate your reading my comments. No, we have never done any exact survey among the Crown Hts population as to the Meshichist influence. Nor does lack of any scientific survey preclude the Lubavitch office to claim 200,000 Lubavitcher followers world over. A shtikel a guzma would you not say ? But clinical observation does indicate wide spread support for their philosophy. Witness sales of Bais mashiach Magazine,attendance at 770 etc. Moshiach rallies etc held in Kan Ziva hashem es habRocha etc. Interestingly no denial is made that the mashpiim at Ohali Menachem Rabbonim Pevsner and Korff are Meshichistin. Rabbi Raskin is a physically ill man who is the victim of a serious stroke May G-D send him a speedy recovery !.who has no real influence . Reb Yoel Kahan is a completely different maase, who I chose not to discuss, just to add that most of his shiurim are not held in Crown Hts, but in Boro park. I wonder why ? One day I hope to write a short but interesting biography of this fascinating man. Few outsiders realize his role between 1992-1994 in promulgating the Messianism in the contemporary Lubavitcher movement in particular its youthful chasidim. It would be subtitled the rise and fall of Rabbi Yoel K....
As you also well know Rav Heller is not active in the Crown Hts rabbinate by his own choice abd rarely participates in such forumns.His sole influence is the kolel.In practice- bepoel Rav Heller as you well know is not in the Crown Hts rabbinate. And if they need a 3rd rabbi either Rabbis Reitport or Dr. Mangel are coopted to join the tribunal.
So what you write is another example of obfuscation.I say this with all due respectto the writer.
The names you mention Ho-rabbonim Ha-chasidim Kahan, Raskin Heller are not important players in Crown Hts. Schwei, Ozdoba, Labkowsky, Majefsky, Korff, Pevsner Butman etc are important players. They have influence.In all honesty I do not know the role of Horav Friedman the rosh of Ohalai Menachem's BM ?
Certainly not all rabbonim in Crown Hts etc are meshichistin . But if it reached that point it would och und vei.
Personally I do not care if Lubavitch believes in so called Messianic philosophy. I understand the need for this hashkofa. I am not a rav and it probably is legitimate if not normative . Gesunterheid. Except lets be up front about one's beliefs. YU does not claimto be Charedi. Brisk in Jerusalem does not claim to be Torah Im derech eretz.Ger does not claim to be a Litvishe yeshiva, and Breslev proclaims its belief in Rav Nachman as the chief influence on their brand of Yiddishkeit.Let Lubavitch do what it wants to do.But in a up front and transparent manner.

[Closeted]

Schneur:

What you suggest is that no one has ever done a survey of Chabadniks beliefs. True. Then you posit that your [selected] rabbis are "more holy" then mine. Please, this is truly obscifating.

Rabbi Heller is pivotal as he is the head of the Kollel, through which virtually the entire community uses as a transition from the Yeshivot to being a head-of-household, a Shliach... You cheapen this vital role...

"Reb Yoel" as he is called, does give Shiurim in Crown Heights, even in 770. Did he help promote certain Mishichist views when the Rebbe was alive? Yes. Did he admit that he went beyond the pale and say, publically, "Toisi -- I have erred"? Yes.

The bulk of his efforts are focused on Sefer Hoarachim - Chabad, and similar publications. To limit his influence? Please.

I will attempt to respond to some of your further points when I have the time.

[Schneur]

No need to respond to my comments, as we both know the truth and I could care less what YU people and other voyeurs etc know or are supposed to know about events and people in Crown Hts. Propoganda is not my interest.
I never said anyone is more holy than another. But tell me is Rabbi Heller an active member of the rabbinate?
Is rabbi Zalman Labkovski a Messichist ? Are Rabbis Schwei and Ozdaba anti-Messichistin ? Are rabbis Pevsner and Korff mashpiim in Ohele Torah and influence the Zeire haTmimim long before they interact with Horav Heller ? and are they major league meshichistin ?
I do not cheapen rabbi Heller I know he is a major league lamdan a former Brisker etc.You and I both know he is one of the greatest men in Crown Hts, but without much hashpoah. But I also know who has the ears of the eylam in Crown Hts and its not Rav Heller.You know fully well of Reb Yoel's "great" influence amongst the youth in Crown Hts.
Please notice my letter takes no issue with the Mesianic philosophy. Nehara, Nehara upishteh...Thats the business of Lubavitch My remarks are sociological not theological in nature.
In the sense of fair play that marks the U.S. lets call a spade a spade.
Believe me I wish we could bring back the rebbe to restore order in Lubavitch.
Thats the wayI see things. Obviously you are more than entitled to your view.

[baffled]

I think who ever made this website is as clever as the contents of this website, PATHETIC. I bet he sits in his basement with a shiny plastic raincoat, use your imagination what he gets up to.

my point is: WHO EVER YOU ARE WHO MADE THIS WEBSITE, GET A LIFE AND SEEK PROFFESSIONAL HELP. there is no justification for putting down people let alone those of your same faith.

[Eugene Weixel]

The last time I looked the majority of people in Crown heights were non Jews of African heritage.

[did say this]

Zalman Shmotkin did say that he was not the messiah "People don't actually believe the Rebbe is the Messiah," Shmotkin said, questioning the definition of "believe." "They say they believe, but really they want, they hope, they pray. But believe this, no." http://www.cultintervention.com/reference/lubavitch/lubavitch1.html

[Shmarya]

Really? Bullshit! Here's the actual quote you linked to:
Like other messianists, Spritzer points to myriad Schneerson writings, speeches and actions as proof that Schneerson is the messiah. Lubavitch officials and non-messianists fiercely criticize these interpretations, deeming them as taken out of context and distorted.

Although world headquarters of the Lubavitch movement is upstairs at 770 Eastern Parkway, its officials no longer visit the synagogue. The message on the walls and in the air is not one they support. Zalman Shmotkin, a Lubavitch spokesman, spoke carefully and reluctantly of the messianists.

"People don't actually believe the Rebbe is the Messiah," Shmotkin said, questioning the definition of "believe." "They say they believe, but really they want, they hope, they pray. But believe this, no." He's DOWNPLAYING what the messianists believe to make Chabad LOOK BETTER. And, BTW, this article is 8 years old, and what Lubavitchers believe is much clearer today than it was then.

Zalman Shmotkin said "People don't actually believe". Did Zalman Shmotkin say this, or did Zalman Shmotkin not say this? If Zalman Shmotkin said this, what problem do you have with Zalman Shmotkin's words? Zalman Shmotkin said clearly that this is not the belief and you are twisting Zalman Shmotkin's words. Zalman Shmotkin did say it and stop denying what Zalman Shmotkin said. You say that Zalman Shmotkin is downplaying, but perhaps Zalman Shmotkin was saying what the press quoted Zalman Shmotkin as saying, instead of your twisted view of what Zalman Shmotkin was saying.