The OU's Rabbi Belsky On The Postville Scandal

I spoke with Rabbi Belsky from the OU about the Postville Shechita Scandal. Just as I did with Rabbi Kohn from KAJ, I'm posting brief points from the interview now as a public service:

1. The 'second cut' is a "classical procedure"  most used with upside-down slaughter.
2. When animals are slaughtered upside down, the 'second cut' allows blood to flow out faster, and drains more blood from the meat.
3. This reduces the amount of blood spots and bruises on the meat.
4. Although not all rabbis agree with this, Rabbi Belsky believes there is better drainage or bleed-out with standing slaughter. Upside-down slaughter has reduced bleed-out.
5. Upside-down slaughter is based on the commentary of the Shach, a 17th century rabbi who wrote a commentary on parts of the Shukhan Arukh, the classical code of Jewish law, and on the glosses to that work written by Rabbi Moshe Issralis, known as the Rema.
6. Rabbi Belsky pointed out that the commentary in question has been argued over for hundreds of years.
7. The majority of rabbinic opinion understands the Shach to be mandating slaughter done by holding the animal – usually a lamb, a goat or other small animals – and sliding its neck over – rather than under – a fixed knife.  This type of slaughter was done because it was faster and easier when slaughtering several animals. (Think ancient assembly-line.)
8. A minority of rabbinic opinion understands the Shach to be speaking about all slaughter, even slaughter done without a fixed knife, and mandates that the cut be made from top down. That necessitates placing the animal on its back before slaughter.
9. This second understanding is what is followed at the Postville slaughterhouse.
10. The reasons for that are as follows: a) it is easier for the ritual slaughterer to work with the animal upside-down, b) it is faster or the ritual slaughterer to work with the animal upside-down, c) more animals can be processed per shift in this fashion, and d) the Chief Rabbis of Israel require upside-down slaughter. Only this type of meat can be exported to Israel.
11. I asked Rabbi Belsky about Dr. Temple Grandin, who is arguably the world's leading expert on slaughter and kosher slaughter. Rabbi Kohn of KAJ referred to Dr. Grandin as a "self-appointed expert" and dismissed he views by saying "we have our own experts." Rabbi Belsky said that he thought highly of Dr. Grandin, noting that she is a "friend of shechita." When told of Rabbi Kohn's remarks, Rabbi Belsky said, "That's too bad. It would be a shame to get into a fight with her." He then noted the Dr. Grandin sells the pen she designed for kosher slaughter (lauded by most experts as the best system available), and pointed out that this might be considered a "conflict of interest."
12. [It should be pointed out that rabbis and kosher supervising agencies are paid for their supervision, and that the slaughterhouses and food producers do the paying. This also could easily be construed as a "conflict of interest."]
13. Rabbi Belsky also pointed out that non-kosher slaughter has an average error rate – defined by the government as having to stun or strike with a specially designed power gun that drives a steel rod into the animal's brain for a second time to complete the slaughter – of more than 10%.
14. He believes the error rate at AgriProcessors is about 1% to 2%.
15. My impression of Rabbi Belsky is that he is a kind, learned, honorable man.

Comments

[Simcha]

"My impression of Rabbi Belsky is that he is a kind, learned, honorable man."

There you go.

[Isa]

The rabbis sit in their thrones, say this and that with nary a dissent.
If there is dissent, they say "quiet/silence", if that doesn't communicate,
they just excommunicate.
They have eyes yet they see not
They have a brain yet they think not
But yet they can feel the coins in their pocket from R****
and that feeling will control their outer skin
now many will be caught up in the meatgrinder
Many will think they can outrun the meatgrinder
Now the meatgrinder will start in action,
with both EPA and the USDA going after R******
And the Religious Orthodox consumer who have not been corrupted,
who knows it is against the laws of heaven
to have an animal needlessly suffer,
Will avoid the meat of R****

[Thomas]

IN number 6 you write "argued over" - I don't understand that term. Please explain.

You write in 7 & 8 the words "majority" and "minority". Are you referring to numbers or something else. If yes numbers then what is the score.

#10 has the information that the Chief rabbis of Israel (where there is no separation of church and state) require this method. The Chief Rabbis of Israel have decided that they will follow the minority ruling. Both the Sefardic and Ashkenazic agree that this method follow this ruling. How long ago did they decide that this requirement is required? From the time of Harav Kook perhaps?

If you are mentioning people in number 12 who may have conflict of interest, then start talking about the USDA inspectors that are they every time the plant operates. There is whole crew that work there. Why isn't PETA filing suit (or whatever they are doing besides making a stink) against the USDA itself and accuses them of Al Taamod Al Dam Rei-echa.

[Shmarya]

#6 – Argued over what the Shach was referring to. The options are #7 and #8.

Majority ("Rov Poskim," in Hebrew) means the the majority of codified rabbinic opinion.

Minority means the minority of codified rabbinic opinion.

There is no scorecard in these matters but, in almost every case, the majority is very many and the minority may be one or two individuals.

#10 – I don't have an answer to that yet but, from what I do know,I would expect that the requirement was added under the tenure of Rabbis Lau and Bakshi-Doron. I suspect it was done because of a request made by another major rabbinic figure in Israel. More on this when i have it.

#12 – They are. That is what the USDA review is all about.

[John K. Diamond]

As a Member of the Advisory Committee for the Jewish Vegetarians of North America (JVNA) I suggest that a simple solution to this would be for ALL animals, Kosher or not, to be raised on organic, "Humane-Certified" farms. Cruel treatment of animals is a universal violation of Torah Law, which can be interpreted in the so-called "Seven Noachide Laws".

[Dovid]

To begin with, there is NOTHING wrong in the PETA video. The trachea is cut out, not "ripped out", with a razor sharp knife. The employee can be seen twice sharpening the knife in the PETA long video. If the animals were dead drunk, they would behave in the exact same manner as depicted on the video, flailing about and unable to stand. Alcohol intoxication and oxygen depravition to the brain yield the same results. The only one who says the animal is "in agony" or "fully" conscious, is PETA's statements on the clip. It's well known that PETA's goal is the total elimination of animal slaughter, and every victory they have is a small step in that direction. "Among the improvements that PETA wants KFC to implement are: replacing crude and ineffective electric stunning and throat-slitting with gas killing" This chilling coment is from PETA's website: http://www.peta.org/news/NewsItem.asp?id=1979 Encouraging them to continue attacking shechita by giving in to their demands is a bad idea.

In #10 above, you cite R'Belsky's comments but you ignore Shulchan Orech. The main reason for shechitah munachas (animal on it's back) has to do with "Drosa" one of the five main p'sulim (disqualifiers) in shechita. If the shochet exerts pressure to aid the cut, the animal is a nevaila. In shechita munachas, the shochet lets the weight of the knife cut while moving it back and forth. In standing shechita, the shochet must balance lifting the knife against gravity, while not pressing upward to aid the cutting. Therefore shechita munachas is inherently more mehudar than standing shechita. It's not just an insignifigant minor mention by an achroan, that mandates shechita munachas as the blogmaster here implies. The ASPCA pen which Dr. Grandin recommends and sells is not inherently more humane than what the torah tells us do, just because she convinced the USDA to approve it. Secondly, when the Polish government in 1936 sought to legislate the desensitizing of animals prior to slaughter, for "humane reasons", the ordinance was oppossed by a united front consisting of the entire spectrum of orthodox Jewery as an "An assault upon one of the fundamentals of the Jewish religion". The declaration was signed by 827 rabbanim, including R'Chaim Ozer, R' Boruch Ber, R'Shimon Shkop, R'Yitzchok Ze'ev Soleveitchik on the Litvishe side, and R'Benzion Bobover, R'menachem Ziemba, R'Chazkal and R' Boruch Halbershtam (Two sons of the Divrei Chaim)and R'Lazer Shapiro,the Munkaczer Rav on the Chasidishe side. Comes now the blogmaster, and dedicates time and effort to side with a radical group that advocates terrorism and the murder of researchers in order to save the lives of animals, against the interest of Judasim. Speer would be proud.
http://www.activistcash.com/biography_quotes.cfm/bid/3437
http://www.animalscam.com/quotes.cfm
http://www.animalscam.com/downloads/peta_friedrich.wav
http://www.amprogress.org/ResearchOpposition/ResearchOppositionList.cfm?c=89

[Anon]

Speer in the last comment reffers to Albert Speer the architect of the third reich, a nazi.

[viagra online]

To begin with, there is NOTHING wrong in the PETA video. The trachea is cut out, not "ripped out", with a razor sharp knife. The employee can be seen twice sharpening the knife in the PETA long video. If the animals were dead drunk, they would behave in the exact same manner as depicted on the video, flailing about and unable to stand. Alcohol intoxication and oxygen depravition to the brain yield the same results. The only one who says the animal is "in agony" or "fully" conscious, is PETA's statements on the clip. It's well known that PETA's goal is the total elimination of animal slaughter, and every victory they have is a small step in that direction. "Among the improvements that PETA wants KFC to implement are: replacing crude and ineffective electric stunning and throat-slitting with gas killing" This chilling coment is from PETA's website: http://www.peta.org/news/NewsItem.asp?id=1979 Encouraging them to continue attacking shechita by giving in to their demands is a bad idea.

[Shmarya]

That is an absolute lie.

The employee used a meat hook to pull out the trachea which he hacked at with a knife.

And no large animal biologists of any note agree with you.

No wonder you think it's okay to sell fake Viagra online.

[camerafreak]

These comments are for isa ! real classy and inteligent commenting on the rabbis i assume you never met Rabbi Belsky and i assume you have never been to a slaughter house first of all Rabbi Belskies wordly knowledge is tremendous Doctors and lawyers ask him for his advice on a regular basis # 2 wake up all killing of animals is gruesome and not for the weak heart so if you ever ate a steak or in your case a slab of pork you are guilty of the same thing so just shut up and don;t blame the rabbis for evreything