Making A Mountain Out Of A Pizza?

The JTA reports on El Al's continuing kashrut problems and the OU's reaction to them.

In brief, the OU's complaint focuses on two incidents. Both took place when El Al flights were stalled at gates for long periods of time. In each each incident, flight attendents left the plane and purchased non-kosher food and then distributed it to passengers. When asked if the food – pizza in one case, cheese sandwiches in another – was kosher, El Al personnel claimed that it was.

These incidents have caused the OU to remove supervision it never really had on unsealed El Al meals originating from New York.

For years the OU has cetified the caterer of the meals, but has not made clear until now that its supervision ends at the caterer's door, unless the meals are double-sealed and double-wrapped.

What is truly sad about this is that it appears El Al personnel, while trying to help passengers stuck in a very uncomfortable situation, made an honest mistake.

Both food items served appear to have been dairy-based and without any meat ingredients.

Most non-Orthodox Jews are unaware of the intracacies of kosher observance. It is reasonable to assume that the employees truly believed the food to be kosher, and that their mistakes will not be repeated.

Compare that to the current Shechita-gate Scandal. Neither Rubashkin, his attorney Nathan Lewin, or any of the kosher supervising agencies involved (except for part of the OU) has either admitted wrong or pledged to repair the situation.

So, I ask you – what is the greater kashrut problem?

Eating a cheese sandwich when the bread and cheese lack supervision or eating the meat of a steer whose neck was ripped out with a hook 5 seconds after shechita?

Comments

[Schneur]

I certainly concur with the above comments. the situation gets even more absurd when compared with the big stink the OU made in New York City recently assuring -prohibiting the use of tap water by all the restaurants and eateries under their supervision. They insist of the use of filtered water only. KAJ has also issued a rabbinical decree to that effect.
Yet both these kashruth groups have adopted a defensive mode of denial in regards to more serious issue of the kashrtuth qualities of beef slaughtered in Postville.
Since when are microscopic organisms more important than some serious issues about shechichta of gasoth in Postville feeding at least 50% of Orthodox jews in North america? yelamdanu rabbeinu ? Why not appoint a totaly independent panel of rabbis, veteranarians and lay leaders to investigate this issue.I think we all know the real answer.

[jewishwhistleblower]

This is the only issue that will make the courts and where there will be accountability:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=515052

McDonald's sued for frying corn nuggets in same oil as chicken
By Anat Roeh - Haaretz
December 16, 2004

McDonald's faces a class action motion in Haifa for allegedly frying corn nuggets in the same oil used to fry chicken.

Naama Dotan claims in her motion that throughout a long period of time, she had bought the corn sticks from McDonald's for her vegetarian daughter. Then they learned that the product had been fried in the same oil as the chicken nuggets.

Since discovering that, she claims, her daughter has felt disgusted and refuses to eat the McDonald's corn sticks.

McDonald's admitted that it uses the same oil to fry the corn and chicken products, Dotan says. But McDonald's said it did not purport that the corn was a vegetarian product.

The affair caused her daughter anguish and derogated from her autonomy, Dotan charges. She also says that the corn sticks McDonald's sells are made by Tivall, which presents them in the media as "a light vegetarian meal".

The fact that the corn products are fried in the same oil as the chicken products amounts to misleading the public, Dotan avers. McDonald's received a vegetarian product and changed its nature without disclosing that to its vegetarian customers.

McDonald's has yet to respond to the allegations.

McDonald's launched its first chain in Israel in October 1993, and today has some 80 restaurants around the country.

[Shmarya]

Interestingly, because of the breading on the chicken nuggets, there is room to say that the vegetable sticks are not made fleishig (meaty) from the oil. I wonder if this was a kosher McDonalds and, if so, what the teudah (kosher supervision certificate) reads.

[ads]

Eating a cheese sandwich when the bread and cheese lack supervision is much worse!!!!

[jewishwhistleblower]

The real big story is what we've been discussing for several weeks (at Protocols, yourmoralleader and now http://www.jewishwhistleblower.blogspot.com ).

The utter betrayal of victims of Rabbinical sexual exploitation by the nation's leading Orthodox rabbinical organization, the RCA. The RCA's very moral authority is now in question.

Excerpts of latest Forward article posted:
...
Several national experts on religious abuse told the Forward that they believe disclosing the report without the victims' permission, as is charged, violates generally accepted standards on how complaints from alleged abuse victims should be handled. At the very least, the experts said, the women should have been asked whether they wanted their names to be released to Tendler, and they should have been given the chance to withdraw their complaint if they did not.

The RCA "blew this big-time," said Jeff Anderson, a St. Paul, Minn. attorney who for two decades has represented survivors of sexual abuse by clergy from all religions.

Marci Hamilton, an expert in religious abuse cases and a professor at Yeshiva University's Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law, sounded a similar note. The allegations against the RCA constitute "gross negligence on the part of the religious organization," she said.

"It's incredible. Supposedly these are religious organizations that are oriented to helping the weak, but nobody seems to care about [the women]," Hamilton said. By giving Tendler the names of his accusers, she said, the RCA appears to have "failed in its legal, moral and religious obligations."

The president of the Jewish Orthodox Feminist Alliance, Carol Newman, said that "if it turns out that names were released, it calls into question the ability of the RCA to confront allegations of rabbinic abuse in a fair and equitable manner, and will have terrible long-term implications."
...

[Stephen Mendelsohn]

BS"D

Is there any evidence the kelim were made treif by either incident? It does not look to me as if either non-kosher food item (cheese sandwiches and pizza) involved the use of utensils. If the oven was not used for non-kosher, why the chumra of double-wrapping? Why not require kashering any questionable kelim and instituting a strict official policy of no unauthorized food form outside? Would not this make more sense?

[Isa]

I wish to discuss kosher cheese
Many years ago (~? 30) I went with a mashgiah to make kosher cheese. It involved a journey into Wisconsin at a small sheese factory, where the kosher renant (that comes from a cow's stomach (calf?))is added in a very small quantity in a huge vat, afterward the curds are shoveled out and sealed in barrels to be be sent to another cheese factory. This sort of ended when meat was added to the cheese (I don't see that stuff anymore).
Anyway I have been told that today's commercial renant is microbial in nature and is not animal derived anymore. (one opinion says it is grown on a wheat base and would be a problem on Passover) Anyway my rabbi from yesteryear was commenting that the expensive 100% mashgiahed kosher cheese isn't all the necessary but no one would certify regular cheese cause they would get 'ground up' of course the kosher cheese factorys provides lots of jobs and that...
Just commenting...
Isa

[Steve Brizel]

Who gave you a license or ethical pulpit to determine which issur is worse? The El Al Mashgichim admitted that they were unaware of what could be wrong with pizza and cheese. That is gross ignorance of contemporary halacha.Ever hear of Basar Bchalav? You are confusing one issur with the very problematic contention that alleged acts of Tzaar Baalei Chaim render an animal treif, something that is not supported by the Talmud or the SA.

[Los Angeles Yid]

It's happening all over again http://chareidi.shemayisrael.com/VYS67aelal.htm

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1164881870575&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull